I think that this is a rather simplistic view of the conflict, and while maybe I'm being overly optimistic, I don't think the situation is nearly as doom and glum as you are portraying it to be. First, having been to the Occupied Territories and to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, I assure you that it is not "banter." It's people, on both sides, struggling to survive. The perception is that "the other side's sole purpose is to eliminate us." This view is held on both sides, and there are extreme factions on both sides that more than substaniate these claims.

I am every hestiant to call this a religious struggle...it's an ethnic conflict--subtle but important difference. There are Christian Palestinians who are still a part of the conflict--in very much the same capacity as the Muslim Palestinians. To say that this is simply religious is to miss a very important segment of the population. The struggle, as we understand it, is relatively new. It isn't a cycle of hatred that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. In historic Palestine, the Jews and the Arab Palestinians coexisted. The problem came to a head when the British Government started talking out of both sides of its mouth--promising the land to the Palestinians while at the same time telling the Zionist Congress that the land would be set aside for the creation of the state of Israel.

I agree that there have been a lot of deals on the table and then returns to violence, but that's the nature of the beast. Peace isn't going to come overnight...it's going to take generations. Someone (I think it may have been George Mitchell, but I'm not 100% sure) said that peace takes as long to accomplish as the war took to fight, if not longer. The peace process is a multi-generational ordeal.

Peace doesn't just appear, though. It's a trying and terrible process--just ask the negotiators in Northern Ireland--and once an agreement is made it doesnt mean the work is done. I believe it is quite possible for there to be a peaceful resolution to the conflict in the Middle East, but it involves fresh faces. Ariel Sharon will never be able to negioate a deal that the Palestinians respect. In much the same way that the Israelis don't trust Arafat because of his past, Palestinians aren't willing to trust the goodwill of a man that ordered the massacres at Shabra and Shantila. Moderates representing both sides need to come to the table and address the issues--until this happens, there will be no budging from firmly held position because there will be no trust and no reason to give an inch.

There needs to be a withdrawl from the West Bank and Gaza, in accordance with UN Resolutions. In the meantime, for Israel's security, UN peacekeeping troops should patrol the borders and crack down on suicide bombers. There is a line of thinking that says that if you give the Palestinians their basic human rights and allow them self-determination there will be a ceasation of the violence--can't say if it's true, it hasn't been tested. But I'm not asking Israel to make itself wholy vulnerable simply to test a theory. UN Peacekeepers would maintain the security of Israel's borders, while ending the presence of Occupation soldiers in the West Bank and Gaza.

I agree with most of the points that shadesofgrey makes above. A study of the history of the Middle East will show that Jews and Arabs have peacefully co-existed more than they have fought.

Based solely on the Koran, Jerusalem has no intrinsic value to Islam. In fact, upon failing to convert the Jews that lived in the area in his time, Mohammed ordered that Muslims NOT face Jerusalem during prayer.

Despite overwhelming force of arms, Israeli forces have not destroyed either of the major mosques in Jerusalem. Not that I am by any means advocating that they should, mind you, but I am merely pointing out that they could.

Sharon's time will pass as will Arafat's. Take the long view, Mr. Right. In 50 years, maybe 20, both will be dead and gone and a new generation of leaders will emerge. A new generation not tainted by the acts of the past.

Regrding the end of the world as prophesied by the Book of Revelations or other religous texts, I have always felt that is was best to plan for tomorrow. If the world ends before then, my plans will be for naught. But if not, I am prepared.

I know that I should let this pass and I hope that it doesn't taint my preceding post. Shadesofgrey, you are certainly well-versed in the history of the Middle East. The killings in the camp at Shabra were by Christian Phalangists. Sharon's sin, if there was one, was a sin of omission, not commission. Having said that, however, I agree that the Palestinians will not negotiate with him. And that, if I am not mistaken, was your point.

I agreed with most of what you say. Although I do not fancy myself to be quite the expert you are shades, I am somewhat learned on the subject.

I agree that the current leadership will most not likely create peace.

I suppose however my disagreement comes to a head when it seems people (not just you) are optimistic for optimisms sake. I guess (sadly if you will) that I do not see promise, and perhaps I am influenced by my Christian beliefs and the Bible's plans for that land.

However please do not misconstrue what I say as what I hope happens, nothing would make me happier than sustained peace in the world, but I just do not believe that is in the cards.

Larry-- as always your thoughtful responses keep me thinking. You did get my intended point regarding Sabra and Shantila. The word "ordered" might have been stronger than it was intended to be. Whether or not I will concede that it was entirely a sin of omission is a debate I shall save for another time--maybe I'll even write a blog on it!

Mr. Right--I'm no expert...it's just my passion--I would like nothing more than to witness a transition to peace. I am not optimistic for optimisms sake--peace isn't easy, but it has had successes else where in the world. Northern Ireland and South Africa are clear examples of ethnic conflicts moving toward peace. Those two conflicts were as intrenched as the current struggle between the Israelis and Palestinians--I'm sure there were many who thought that optimism was wasted in those cases as well.

There is also optimism from within Palestine. In light of last week's arrest of the 16 suicide bomber, 60 prominent Palestinians came forward to reaffirm their commitment to a peaceful resolution and to call on Palestinians to refrain from using violence in retaliation for Yassin's death. There are many reasons to be optimistic, you simply have to be looking for them--as the reasons to be pessimistic take up all the medias attention.

that should say 16 year old suicide bomber...sorry, since I can't log in, I can't edit.